How To Monetize A Podcast: Insider Secrets Revealed

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How To Monetize A Podcast: Insider Secrets Revealed

Sneak-peek moments you don’t want to miss in the full episode:

  • Find out the surprising benefits of approaching your niche from an unconventional angle, as shared by both Niall and Andrew.
  • Don’t miss the unexpected twist in Niall’s journey from comic to podcast/course creator!
  • Hear Andrew discuss his personal secrets to consistently producing quality content.


In this episode of Smarter Podcasting, I talk with Andrew Durning, where we discuss our experiences in podcasting and creating online courses. We delve into the challenges we faced, the process of developing our courses, and the importance of finding your niche. As fellow Scotsmen venturing into the world of podcasting, we exchange valuable insights and learnings, shedding light on the intricacies of starting and growing a successful podcast.

Finding the Right Path

Andrew and I commiserate about the prevalent trend of oversimplified advice on starting a side hustle or creating online courses. We acknowledge that the reality is far more complex and time-consuming than the quick one-liners often suggested. While exploring various options, we both gravitated towards online courses, recognizing the growing demand for digital learning. However, we soon realized that developing a high-quality course required significant effort and attention to detail.

The Journey of Creating an Online Course

I share my personal experience of creating an online course, starting with my initial attempt to repurpose blog posts into written content. However, upon receiving feedback, I quickly realized that video content, slides, and interactive elements were essential for an engaging and valuable course. I recount the meticulous process of writing lectures, recording myself, editing the content, and finally organizing it into a cohesive course. The journey was time-consuming but immensely rewarding as I witnessed the positive testimonials and feedback from my test audience.

The Challenges of Marketing

Once the course was complete, the focus shifted to marketing. Andrew and I discuss the overwhelming nature of marketing strategies, which often include starting a YouTube channel, maintaining a blog, or launching a podcast. Each of these avenues requires substantial time and effort to build an audience and generate leads. We share our mutual excitement and apprehension as we navigate the marketing stage, seeking ways to effectively reach potential clients and grow our respective courses.

Comparing Notes on Podcasting

As Scottish podcasters, Andrew and I compare our podcasting journeys. We explore topics such as defining a niche, selecting appropriate tech and software, and creating engaging content. Andrew highlights the importance of narrowing down a niche to attract a dedicated audience, while I share my experience with a broader niche and the challenges it presents. We discuss the significance of content creation, including generating episode ideas and selecting suitable recording locations.

How To Monetize A Podcast Conclusion

My conversation with Andrew Durning provides valuable insights into the process of creating and marketing online courses in the podcasting realm. We emphasize the need for dedication, attention to detail, and a genuine understanding of one’s target audience. By sharing our experiences and comparing notes, we hope to inspire and guide aspiring podcasters and course creators, encouraging them to embark on their own successful journeys in this exciting and ever-evolving field.

Andrew Durning: [00:00:00] Humans give it up for the best Scott that is living in Vietnam, who's also a Comedian and Teacher, Niall Mackay.

Niall Mackay: That's a way better intro than last time.

Andrew Durning: Yeah, the last time it was. Yeah. words I can't say. 'Cause I don't get demonetized in the first minute. So much has happened.

Niall Mackay: Well, if you're monetized, congratulations. That's awesome.

Andrew Durning: Yeah. Thank you. Well, mate, at the time of recording three have been monetized.

So what? I didn't get a fourth, but then I passed it on to the guy to run, spread his wings and fly away with that being a what "Podcast Mentee." What which you are now doing as well, yourself, man. Congratulations.

Niall Mackay: Yeah, thank you.

Andrew Durning: But anyway, what I want hear about your podcast course. So tell everybody on this side of the pond about it. What your process was to get into it. How many clients you've had. I want to see. I want hear the success of this fellow Scott.

Niall Mackay: it's one of these things I got tricked, right? Because one of the things that bugs me the most, and I already knew [00:01:00] this, and you probably see this all the time, especially in the pandemic, right?

"How to make money?" "How to get a side hustle?" "You know what you should do…" and you see it all the time. I even saw it yesterday. "Start a YouTube channel", as if you can just do that and you just record some videos and, "Oh, you got a phone start a YouTube channel." You're like, "Do you know how much effort and time goes into starting a YouTube channel that is successful and gonna make you money? It's gonna take you months. If not years to be 

Andrew Durning: I'm not sure you get it. You totally get it. Like, when I said, "You know, I don't do it on my phone." Because you have to have the quality to go with the content. I get lynched to the point where I've had to stop making the videos. I'm gonna have to do one going, "Look, here's a we track sheet of how to do one if you're using your phone." Not just one that I'll put up YouTube, probably couple of people, but I get crucified for that. So thank you. You make me feel normal .

Niall Mackay: Yeah, yeah. Well, so you see it the time, like, "Start a blog." That is one as well, and it's like start a blog is, so you would see all these things like, "Do this. Do that" [00:02:00] side hustle. You'll make some money and it's always like one line of two lines and you're like, you realize that one or two lines that you've put in your blog, 10 ways to start a side hustle, like each one of those is a massive project. But anyway, I got gut because I read the thing, "Start An Online Course."

It's the way the future, everyone's learning online these days. It's growing so much and…

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: You know, just create your course. Like just create a course and then sell it. And you're like, was that all right? I'm gonna do this. It's taken me a year. Obviously, it's not been fulltime, but I mean there was a good few months where I was literally, any spare moment I had, I was working on it. So…

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: So what I had, my first iteration of it was basically like I had a few blog posts and, cause it's like just start a course. I was like, "Oh cool, I'll take some of my blog post. Make use of this platform, put it in a post, put it in writing." You follow it, I'll sell it. I shared it with a friend who she knew a little bit about this kind of stuff, and she's like, "That's worthless." And then I spoke to someone else and he's like, "I mean, like what would you pay for an online e-book if you've just [00:03:00] got texts?" It's worth like two bucks.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: It's like if you wanna sell it, you've gotta make video content, you've gotta have slides, you've gotta do this, you've gotta do that. I'm also like, "I wanna do it right."

You know what I mean?

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: I wanna do it quickly, but I also wanna do it right to a certain standard. I'm not a perfectionist. Like, I won't put it off and off and put it on and keep it off until it's a hundred percent. Like, I'm happy to just get it done.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: But I also wanna do it as well as I can with the time that I have.

So anyway, it just turned into this massive project. So I wrote all these lectures, and then I had to sit and record myself, just like this. Send the lecture,  do the slides on Canva. Then, I will record myself and edit it on Descript and put into the course. And so all of that just took so, so long.

So eventually, I got it pretty much finished . And then, I got busy with life, you know, so I couldn't really touch it for a while. But then again, it's this stuff you get right, the course is done. So now it's like, "Okay, now you're gonna market it."

And then it comes back to the same stuff and it's like, "How do you market it?" "Start a YouTube channel. Have a blog. [00:04:00] Start a podcast." And you're like, you realize like each and every one of these things that you're like, "Just do this to build your email list." It's like, Insane. So even yesterday I was likeso excited in the beginning. Because now I got so overwhelmed cause I'm at the stage where I've given it as I've talked to you, I've given it to a few people for free.

Andrew Durning: Mm-hmm.

Niall Mackay: To get some feedback and some testimonials. And the feedback and the testimonials have been amazing.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: So that's like really encouraged me 'cause they could have come back, you know, I think they were being honest. They could have come back and said, "Okay, it's not that good." You know, I even

Andrew Durning: mm-hmm.

Niall Mackay: So that makes me feel good that I've created something that has value that people will pay for.

Andrew Durning: I've had like, you know, the initial consultations with them. I was quite surprised. Well, I got my kinda 'mind done' and I'm not gonna lie, it's not been in the same details as yours. It's been like, fly by the seat of my pants because that seat is not style seems to be working for me. And I'm like, "Okay, well that seems to work for me. Let's go with it."

Well, and when I've done the course, like the business course with that Waste Management company over here in the UK.

Niall Mackay: Mm-hmm.[00:05:00]

Andrew Durning: And they were like, "Okay, well you can do your course." I hadn't even thought of the course yet. Well, I met him, my business advisor, and he said, "That could be an option for you."

He put me in contact, I blogged that entire interview, and they went, "Okay, let's see what you got." So I'm like, "Fuck, I've gotta write this course."

Niall Mackay: Yeah.

Andrew Durning: So I'm like, writing it down, take the time with it. Make sure like, "Oh my God." I was sweating like a mouthful, but my life is drying yourself. Let 16 people had signed up, "What they expected for?"

And eight people turned up. So they were first overwhelmed with that. They thought that was great.

Niall Mackay: Yeah.

Andrew Durning: And then they were like, "You kept it real." I wasn't really showy, there wasn't a lot of slides and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, but in my head I was like, stressing 'cause I'm like, people like to see vigil, they like to see slides.

So, but because I was just kinda, I had to text up of what I was gonna do, and I was talking about it, and then I would look at the comments like, "Oh, I've that question from blah, blah, blah. That's a really interesting one." And then I would have a weird quick thing. And they were like, "You were really good with your engagement. You were really good with interacting with people. It's like, but why was it so short?" [00:06:00] You know, I was like "Because I only have a free Zoom account."

 And they're like, "Oh, we didn't know what we could have done." Because they logged on 10 minutes beforehand to make sure that I was okay and I wasn't nervous.

And then when I walk in, walked back in afterwards and they were like, we didn't know. So sorry. It was like, that's actually better 'cause you were able to cramped so much detail in 30-minutes. And it's been the same deal with like the podcast kind of clients as well on my side.

Like I took, like Grant, who's doing "Ginger Scaredy-Cat" with me. Well, he came with me with the idea and I thought, "Well, this is my pilot. I'll do it for free to see if I can do it, if I can teach someone." And then the results came in and I'm like, "Okay, I can do it. So I got like, my first client before I realized and I was like, " what'd I charge you? Dunno."

Niall Mackay: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Durning: So I charged it and he's like, "Okay. Cool. No worries." And then I went on, I got like a valuation site and you could put in like, you know, kinda the details of what your course was and stuff. And I…

Niall Mackay: Oh okay.

Andrew Durning: I majorly understood myself apparently, like with the course that you are probably delivering as [00:07:00] well.

And probably doing better than me, 'cause you're more meticulous than me. Let's be totally upfront here. Mines was valued closer to about the 500 mark.

Niall Mackay: Oh wow.

Andrew Durning: What in the business

Niall Mackay: and what is your course? Like, what is it cover? How is it delivered?

Andrew Durning: Here we go, 'cause this is something I really want to do, is like, just compare notes, compare Scottish podcasting notes.

Niall Mackay: Yeah.

Andrew Durning: And we can learn and grow together. So like, the first ones that I covered is, "Knowing your niche."

Niall Mackay: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Durning: So it's like, you know, people say, "I want to start a podcast about mental health."

It's like, "Okay, let's funnel it down. Like what's the kinda core thing that you can start with?" Well, and then it's the tech and the software. So it's like, "What can you get that's reasonably good tech for quite a good price for starting out?" And then saying that you can always go bigger as you go on freezing.

Niall Mackay: Yeah.

Andrew Durning: Then after that we've got the, you know, the actual 'creating the content.' So like, you know, like in the first course I say, [00:08:00] and then like, you need at least kinda six to 10 episode ideas. So you can build up your base and then that way won't get too burned out, like going forward with it. So by that point, they show that we used to have six ideas, and then you can go through like, you know, "Where do you gonna record it? How you gonna record it? Let's piece it all together into back of mind". Are those ones matching yours ? 

Niall Mackay: Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty, pretty similar, almost identical. I kinda broke it down intothree main parts. "Before you record." "How you record." Then, "After you record."

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: And so the, 'before you record' is the niche stuff. I saw one recently, you know, I went one of the groups, and they're like, "Hey, we have four guys that just drink beer and talk. Why don't we have any audience?" And you know, all the comments are like, one of the comments made me laugh so much. It was like, "If I want to hear four guys talking while they're drinking beer. I'll just go to the local bar."

Andrew Durning: Brilliant.

Niall Mackay: So it's the biggest thing. But a lot of podcasters, some have spoken to someone I see. And it's like, "Who's your podcast for?" I'm like, "Oh, that's for everyone." And I suffer from it as well. My main podcast is called "A Vietnam [00:09:00] Podcast." And I mean, I guess it's for people who want to learn about Vietnam, I guess.

So it is niche. It does have a niche, but at the same time, it's not a very specific niche.

Andrew Durning:

Niall Mackay: And my mother podcast is a comedy podcast, but that's about how jokes are created and I dunno if you know, that one's called, "Did that really happen? So…

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: I play a comedians joke and then I asked them, "Did that really happen?" And so I really like that one. I love them. They're possibly pretty similar.

Andrew Durning: That's happen a lot. I really like that one.

Niall Mackay: Yeah, I'm proud of that one. That's been a bit of a, like side project. And a side project and it's kinda fallen by the wayside recently cause I've been so busy helping other people make podcasts.

Andrew Durning: mm-hmm.

Niall Mackay: But it's there. So it's hopefully doing more in the future. But yeah, start off with like the niche. How do you choose your topic? But then bit more specific like that. How do you choose your artwork? And how do you design the artwork? 

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: Different presentation formats. 

Andrew Durning: Mm-hmm.

Niall Mackay: And then it comes down to, you know, like, yeah, choosing the microphone, choosing the equipment, if it fits your budget. 

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: How do you get edit? What editing softwares are there? I always recommend Descript 'cause that's what I use and so talks a little bit more about Descript.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: Then what do you do after recording [00:10:00] is just how to publish the episode, how to promote it, and then how to monetize it as well.

Andrew Durning: Yeah. Well that's kinda roughly the same to me 'cause it's like the after content creation. I've got, you know, social media. So it's like how you use the social media to kinda like, get the word out there that you're using it. And then the final ones, your platforms an upload schedule. So it's like, you know, what platform are you gonna choose and what and when you gonna upload it?

 The keyboard is always, don't just say, "When I feel like it." Or maybe Or they'll upload like, or a Tuesday afternoon and then they'll wait like three weeks and do it on a Friday night. And it's like.

Niall Mackay: Yeah.

Andrew Durning: But at least your first six have a set time. Stick with it. Easiest way that our is what. When did we associate the times with coordination strict being on? When? When my case, it was Wednesday, at seven.

Niall Mackay: Yeah.

Andrew Durning: Right. So Wednesday at seven morning I'm recording and will be watching it. So I get half an hour to do whatever I wanted .

Niall Mackay: But you know, that's a good one. That's my biggest thing as well, just be consistent. I always make a joke about [00:11:00] when people cussed being like, "Oh, what's the optimal time? When's the best time to post your podcast? Is it 6:00 AM on a Tuesday?" And I'm like, "Podcasts don't work like that. It's not like we wait for the full moon and make sure the third Tuesday of the month, like, just be consistent because people listen to podcasts when they want."

Nobody's like be that Coronation Street one is a good example, but also at the same time, nobody's sitting waiting for 7:30 on a Wednesday for your podcast to come out. You know what I mean?

Andrew Durning: With the Thomas 10 engine one on my side, they do wait for it.

Niall Mackay: Oh, really?

Andrew Durning: Yeah. But because of lot of those Thomas fans have autism as well, so they like consistency and routine and structure.

Niall Mackay: Mm-hmm.

It's also difficult with all the time zones as well. 'Cause you never know the time zones these people listen to my podcast from all over the world. So you have no idea where.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: Where people are.

Andrew Durning: Well, I also owe you a really big thank you before we were on. Because after I've had you on, the first time for the podcast, Vietnam became my second top most viewed country.

Niall Mackay: What?

Andrew Durning: [00:12:00] Yep.

Niall Mackay: That's amazing.

Andrew Durning: It was top for a while and now I think it's third. No, third. So I've still got some hangers on there. And I might go back to number one for getting you back on.

Niall Mackay: Did you mention Vietnam and the title or something like that?

Andrew Durning: Yeah. I drop here Vietnam in it. What? And then I was still talking about them, like saying, "You know, I had a Scottish Guy who was living in Vietnam." The numbers went up. I was like, to my Vietnamese, let supporters, I love you.

Thank you.

Niall Mackay: Awesome. No, that's so good.

Andrew Durning: I'm happy.

One of the weirdest ones that I had, you know what it top it for a while. It's Russia.

Niall Mackay: Right. Right.

Andrew Durning: Because since the war kicked off a lot of Western contents have been removed. So the last one that Western that they can get. What's more Western generally than a Scottish guy? Shortly up the rankings and I was like, "Wow." And then the irony is like over channel. It's a Cold War scenario. Russia number one, American number two. Then American number one, Russia, number two. I'm like, "This is the cool [00:13:00] world of podcasting." It's so mental. One thing I was gonna ask about, like your courses.

Niall Mackay: Yeah.

Andrew Durning: Have you got any kinda follow up ones like planned? You know, like for like when they've made the podcast or maybe they're struggling to get the numbers? How could you, glue all that podcast.

Niall Mackay: I was gonna say one thing I tell, "Sell this first course." So that's the main thing. Just get that. So I haven't really thought that far ahead, but it's definitely a good idea.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: But the platform…

Andrew Durning: One of your clients says already up and running. I did see that. So you can plug your client as well, like someone that you've helped, like get their stuff going. So when you go sell it.

Niall Mackay: Well, that's got me so pumped. So I gave out a bunch of free courses to some people to just try and get some feedback The two people who went through my full course, one of 'em did their first interview yesterday.

The other one's gonna be doing the first interviews next week. And they're gonna be launching. I already got 100 percent success record of the people who've done my course on podcast. Like I said, the feedback has been really good. Because, you know, like, I don't even know if this is any good. You know, it's like you doubt yourself and you're like, "Is [00:14:00] this this garbage? Have I just wasted like a year?"

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: And then, now, I'm like, "That's what I was saying yesterday." I was like overwhelmed. And then underwhelmed. I was overwhelmed. Because like, and I was excited. I was like, yes, this is going amazing. Like people are enjoying it. And then I was like, "Ah, now I gotta sell it. Like, how do I do that?"

Start YouTube channel. I'm gonna start my blog. I'm gonna start do that. So, yeah, and part of that is thanks for having me on, is coming on and talking on other people's shows as part of that. That's kinda part of the ongoing strategy is to just guest of others as well, which I've gotta do more of as well.

Andrew Durning: As well as a thank you. I do also owe you an apology.

Niall Mackay: What's that for?

Andrew Durning: Because you'd sent your course out to me to look at and I did look at it.

I just forgot to get back to you 'cause by that point other people had already got back to you. I was like, "I've missed my window." But I also wanted to thank you for it because, well at that point I was like, , I'm gonna have to create something 'cause people were asking for it. And the things I was thinking was, I don't know if I've got that knowledge.

I don't know if I've got, but if it's gonna be something that everybody else [00:15:00] knows or whatever, that's the reason your stuff kinda actually gave me a confidence boost. Like, "Wait, I'm actually saying the right things. I'm not talking pissed."

Niall Mackay: Yeah. Yeah. I have the same thing as well. Yeah. I've had the same thing as well. I see what someone else is doing and I'm like, "Oh, I said the same thing. Alright, sweet. I know what I'm talking about." So, yeah, that.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: It's something, yeah. I started making podcast 2018, huh? Yeah. '19. 2019 and that never was a plan to be a Podcast Producer or Maker, but then it's like you just learn so many skills. And then you realize the podcasts are just growing and growing and growing. Like even this morning, I think I picked up a new client in the States, for editing 'cause he's posting like, you know, I need help with editing. And it's just like the growth is just, it's just not stop growing really.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: Good time to get in the earlier thing, I think we're both doing something that's probably… Even today, I just thought, it could be in 20 years time and you're the OG of , Podcasting. Right now feels so fresh and new, in 20 years it's not that far away. It could be [00:16:00] looking back in 20 years and being , "You know, Andrew Durning taught that. Those are the guys pioneering ." Sometimes you see other people doing stuff and that , intimidates you, , "Oh man, he knows more than me, or he's better than me. Like, why am I doing this? , this guy knows way more than me." And then, you're kinda like, "No, he doesn't. He doesn't know that much more than me." Or if he does, that's fine. Other people are allowed to know more than you. you don't have to be the only one that knows this information.

Andrew Durning: Yeah, it's like how all the like the Content Creators that are on YouTube, like, you know, guys like, Think Media, Nick Lemon. Like guys that are there, what they're doing, like their own courses and stuff as well.

And then they're dropping kind free tidbits on YouTube as well. So like I went on some of their courses and what their YouTube videos. And it's been good because like a lot of it, I'm like, they're actually now too big to give the in depth analysis to individual people.

Niall Mackay: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Durning: Because they'll do like these panel things, like thousands of people will come on them cuz they've earned that, right?

Niall Mackay: Mm-hmm .

Andrew Durning: So whereas, I'm like, I can use this to my advantage, right? [00:17:00] If like I do a generic and I'll do the generic YouTube, like ones that part two, part three watching it to the end. You know, if you want detailed stuff, detailed help, email for our consultation, that costs nothing at the minute. And then take me and kind take it from there.

Niall Mackay: So now I know that the product is good. Now I know it's there. I think I know the value. I just need to get myself out there, and get Seven Million Bikes podcasts out there and get myself more known as a Niall Mackay, "The Podcast Guy."

That's what it's gonna be.

Andrew Durning: Hey, I like it 'cause you've got your Raymond scheme as well. Niall Mackay, "The Podcast Guy." That's always something I want.

Niall Mackay: I gotta hand that to my wife. She came up with that one. 'Cause I've mentioned to you before, everyone says, my last name wrong, they always say "Ma-kay."

Andrew Durning: Yes.

Niall Mackay: Or any other variation of not saying Mackay. So that helps people pronounce my name properly. If you say Niall Mackay, "The Podcast Guy." there's 200, 250,000 active podcast in the world.

Andrew Durning: It's quite interesting. [00:18:00] It's like you think about you know.

Niall Mackay: 600 million.

Andrew Durning: Yeah, and there was like 2 billion YouTube accounts.

Niall Mackay: Yeah. So the room for podcast growth is huge.

Andrew Durning: Yeah. It's all the little chips and tricks that, you know, guys like us know to help people 'cause I dunno if you had it as well cause we are current on time, so we'll end in this. That'll tid bit there. I think you, well, when people say how lucky you are to have the podcast clients or be doing so well with your podcast. Oh, you've got lucky. And I'm like, "Nah, I worked my ass off. Here I am. I have been busting my ass constantly to get there a lot.

And I'm sure that you'll feel the same way. Like, sometimes there could be an element of a lot, but most of it is hard work and skill.

Niall Mackay: I agree and disagree with what you're saying and only disagreeing the fact that I've not had anyone yet say, "You're so lucky." But I know what you mean. I mean, that happens in so many different scenarios.

You know, we've lived overseas for a long time and you know, sometimes, "Oh, you're so lucky [00:19:00] that you live overseas." And you're like, "It's not really luck-, it's so similar principles."

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: I do, I do completely. I mean, you always make your own luck, right? So like, there's one of my clients, but I even, I was like, I knew them already. So I'm like, I mean, "No. Was that just lucky 'cause I knew them?" And I'm like, "No. They came and approached you because they knew the skills that you have." And so.

Andrew Durning: Yeah.

Niall Mackay: I don't really, you make your own luck, right? Like Billy Zane Titan.

Andrew Durning: Yeah, definitely. And it's like one of my clients is like, she's a friend that I knew from college back in like 2008.

Niall Mackay: Mm-hmm.

Andrew Durning: And they could be like, "Oh, you got lucky because it's one of your mates." And I'm like, "No. She approached me and we had the consultation treat. They're like every other client 'cause she thought no one want it. 'Cause it's backed up."

Niall Mackay: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.

Andrew Durning: Niall, we are coming up on time and I just wanna say like, it's been an absolute blast to speak to you, man.

It always is, and I follow your stuff as well. What all the socials and everything, it's been an absolute pleasure as always.

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